Dating rumors got a bit of a boost on Monday night (May 12) as Cardi B and NFL star Stefon Diggs enjoyed their first public date night cheering on the New York Knicks during the team’s game five win over […]
“I don’t like saying it in my accent,” PinkPantheress timidly says of her mixtape title, which was later revealed to be Fancy That, during her late March visit to Billboard.
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Rocking a plaid top dress, dark navy jeans and black flats that could’ve been on an Aeropostale mannequin circa ’07, the U.K. native gushes about house artists like Basement Jaxx and early Calvin Harris influencing her nine-track mixtape.
“I feel like nobody’s really tapped into these fully since the eclipse of [their] genre. I was like, ‘Let me try to do it and see what I can do here,’” the 24-year-old says. “Just because I’m such a fan of it and I was very inspired by it. I haven’t felt really inspired in a long time.”
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Holed up in her London home, PinkPantheress got to work as the project began to take shape over the course of two months. After some back-and-forth file transferring and tinkering with producer Axsel Arvid, Pink’s skittering production met her plush vocals while still maintaining her signature DIY raw experimentation.
She dug through the crates while pulling on samples from the aforementioned Basement Jaxx to Panic! at the Disco and even Nardo Wick’s “Who Want Smoke??” for her most sonically potent work to date. “I made something that kind of incorporated my two projects into one super project,” the Billboard Women in Music 2024 Producer of the Year adds.
PinkPantheress is reserved yet charming in conversation as she opens up about learning she wasn’t “an arena artist” after touring with Olivia Rodrigo, being the subject of plenty of memes, her global crossover appeal and acting aspirations.
How did you end up in Jack Harlow’s “Just Us” video?
Jack messaged me and asked me if I could be in the video. I asked if I could hear the song and he was like, “No, you can not.” I don’t really do cameos or anything, especially not for bigger artists because I get worried and scared of public perception. But he was like, “You need to trust me that I’ll make you look cool.” Then I just did it and it was really fun.
How did you get in the zone for this mixtape? What did you set out to do?
I wanted to create a project that reflected my progress as a producer. I made something that kind of incorporated my two projects into one super project. I produced a lot of it in London in my house. I listened to a lot of U.K. music. A specific era, a lot of Basement Jaxx, a lot of Calvin Harris.
I created the beats on my laptop and then I sent them to this producer I was working with from Norway called Axsel [Arvid]. We went back-and-forth and made the beats and I recorded really quickly. It was done in like two months.
Being a perfectionist in the studio, do you have to go back in and tweak stuff or once it’s done, it’s done?
Figuratively and physically and always literal, I am a tweaker. I am always going back and [asking], “What can I do here that I want to change?” I was actually fairly chill on this project because the more you perfect something, for me as an artist, people definitely prefer when I sound more DIY and raw. So I was trying to keep it as raw as possible.
I love how you flipped Nardo Wick’s “Who Want Smoke??” on “Noises.”
I love that song. I really like Nardo Wick and 21 Savage. I wasn’t even trying to use it until I was writing my song. I was like, “Oh, it would be cool to have a break in the beat where it’s the bass going [hits table].” They do the same thing. I was like, I might as well pay homage and put his voice in it. I actually wonder if he’s heard it and I wonder what he thought. He probably thought it was ass. I wanna know what he thinks. I wanna personally find out what he thinks. Obviously, it’s drum and bass now. It’s a whole different genre.
What do you think about your crossover popularity? How do you gauge it as far as your fans in the U.K. and your fans in the U.S.?
Even though my music is more genre-based in the U.K., I’d say I have more fans in America. I think in a weird way, the U.K. is more hip to drum and bass and the music I make, so me coming out after we’ve had a history of women that I’m influenced by — like Lily Allen and Imogen Heap, that’s where they were most respected and adored. I’d say the majority of British people are more used to my sound, so it’s probably not as much, “Whoa, what is this!,” as Americans are. [American] People in general speak of me as more an innovator or pioneer, whereas people in the U.K. will celebrate the fact I’ve been able to cross over and get the features I have. America’s just different.
I feel like the internet has kind of united all nations. It’s not as clear to me these days who’s British and who’s American, because the culture is the same amongst the internet. We all watch the same streamers and listen to the same music, so there’s not much of a divide anymore. You’re big everywhere these days.
How does having hearing loss in one ear affect your creative process?
I can’t mix anymore. I struggle with the high end of some of the instruments. I have to get someone else to mix and master now, which I used to do myself.
Will Fancy That lead up to an album later this year, or does it exist in its own universe?
I feel like it’s [the latter]. I want it to exist, but it’s weird because I feel like any body of work these days [is overlooked]. For me, personally, a body of work is a body of work. I’ll call it something different, but realistically, I want it to do the same thing. I want it to impact the same — even though technically it’s not an album, I still want to treat it as such.
I saw a tweet going viral saying, “u a boy turn that PinkPantheress off.” What do you think about that? The guys can’t listen too?
Everyone can enjoy my music. Honestly, I need those streams, so I’ll take whatever gender you are.
u a boy turn that pinkpantheress off— nani (@charredapple) March 23, 2025
When you’re making music, is it ever toward a specific gender?
When I make music, I make music for people that look exactly like me. I’m not even just talking about being a girl. I make music for people that are East African, I make music for people that live in these cities who dress like me and have the same hairstyle as me. When I’m making music, I’m thinking of somebody that looks identical to me. I’m talking about the wig down to the clothes. Everything. I visualize myself listening to my music first before I think about anybody else.
I literally am so at my demographic of fans. There’s gamers, K-Pop fans, people that are full of themselves, street n—as and people who call themselves cutesy girls and emos. It’s really such a reach of people. I never thought to myself, “Oh, this is what my fans are gonna like.” When I go to my shows and I see a diverse crowd and different races, I’m very happy. I always felt when I was younger that I was always the only person of color in that room. I especially love having Black people in my crowd. It’s so important to me, because when you’re making drum and bass, people aren’t expecting certain people to enjoy it. When I see those people there, I’m like, “Yeah.” It got through. It’s really cool to see.
How was meeting André 3000?
It was really brief, but really sick. I was in Paris, and it was coming out of the Alexander McQueen show. Oh my God, he was with Laura Roach as well. I was like, “Oh my God, this isn’t real life.” I wasn’t gonna take a photo with him, but my publicist was like, “You need to do this for your future self.” It was very crazy. He didn’t know who I was, which is perfectly fine, but just the fact he still stopped for a photo was really nice. I thought he was gonna be like, “F–k off.” Him and his flute. I actually didn’t come out with words like, “Can I get a picture?” Just the fact that he was so willing. Someone like him doesn’t need to stop. He was with Laura Roach, but they were by themselves, no security.
I saw another photo of you at the Vivienne Westwood show at Paris Fashion Week next to Ice Spice and Chappell Roan. What are those conversations like? Was that the first time you’ve seen Ice in a while?
It actually was. When we both up like, “Oh my God, you’re here, yay!” When you see someone you’re friends with at one of these things, it’s like being back at school and being sat next to your friend that you really have fun with, because it can be so daunting.
That was the first time I met Chappell, and she’s so nice and cool. She’s really friendly. I actually think we’re quite similar in those situations. Being at the Vivienne Westwood show front row is one of the most magical things ever. There are some elements that can make it really daunting. Then you have photographers fighting over stuff. No one’s gagging to be part of that experience but at some point you have to get a bit stoic. I was definitely breaking into stoicness.
Could we ever get another collab with Ice Spice?
I’d do it for sure on the right song.
What did you think about Usher’s son taking his phone and DMing you?
He’s funny. I actually have met him twice now. He’s a really huge fan. He’s always at my shows. Whenever we’re close to Atlanta, he’s always coming. He’s really cute and when that happened, I don’t know what my reaction was. I was like, “Is this a joke?” I was sure of it. I kinda feel like I knew about him before I saw a message, but he’s a really funny guy. If your dad was Usher, I might do that, if I were a big fan of someone. I actually probably would. Usher’s so sweet, too. I met him on FaceTime.
You’re very online and adept with online culture. Do you see a lot of these tweets and stuff about you going viral?
Not always, but recently I’ve been really on top of it because I just downloaded Twitter. Only to speak with my group chats because that’s where they are. Sometimes I scroll the timeline. I feel like I’m now part of these and I get jokes now. Whereas before, I felt like I was alone.
How was opening up for Olivia Rodrigo, and what’s one thing you’ve taken from her and incorporated?
I did six or seven shows I think. It was definitely very difficult for me. I enjoyed it a lot — because, one I got to see her perform live, and she’s amazing. She’s an actual force. Watching her and how she combats an arena and how she actually does the arena, made me realize, “Wow, some people are arena artists and some people are not.” I’m not an arena artist. That’s something I learned about myself. What I learned from her is there are ways you can approach an arena and interact with people in the up theres or the far backs. She did that and is amazing at it.
What happened when I watched her was, I saw my own failing and my own incapabilities, and I was like, “I’m not an arena artist.” That’s not for a lack of trying. It just made me realize there are some things in life as an artist you’re told you should try one day — but for me, I think I’m one of those artists where I’m comfortable is where I always strive. When I’m pushed to do something because it’s the right thing to do as an artist, because it’s an arena, I feel like the opportunity is the most amazing thing I had and I’m so happy I did it. It made me realize like this whole thing is not for me to do. It’s for powerhouses like her. I’m not a powerhouse artist, I’m very much on my chill s–t. I’m not a performance-based artist.
So it made me realize that difference. It distraught me that there were any sufferings to that leg of the tour for her because of my shortcomings. I wish I could do have done it the whole way through, but I feel like I was gonna be detrimental to myself.
It was interesting you said you learned that about yourself, not being an arena artist. I don’t think I’ve ever heard an artist say that.
I’m not an arena artist, I’m not a stadium artist. I feel like there’s obviously ways I could make myself an arena artist. You can get the dancers, do the training, get the stage presence. I can go through training from now until two years later and see where I’m at. But I still don’t think my music belongs in an arena. I think my music belongs in a more intimate setting. As an artist, I think my fanbase appreciates more intimate settings.
Is there anything outside of music that you’d like to accomplish?
I’d like to do acting one day. I’m really meek, so we’ll see one day. I need to get more confident.
What do you hope fans take from this mixtape?
Sonically, I genuinely feel it’s my best work, so I hope that is the most obvious thing to come out of it. I think my fans are kind of divided about what their favorite projects are. I feel like a lot of people prefer my first project, while a lot of people prefer my second. This is kind of like a blend of both.
The party don’t stop for Kesha‘s biggest hit, “Tik Tok,” which has remained one of the most popular songs from the late 2000s more than a decade later. But according to the pop star, she originally thought the track was “too dumb” when she first wrote it.
While serving as a guest on The Jennifer Hudson Show Tuesday (May 13), Kesha recalled being blown away by the success of “Tik Tok” after it dropped in 2009. “No, oh my god,” she said when asked whether she ever expected it to become such a big hit.
“When I was writing ‘Tik Tok,’ it was weird, because the dumber it got, the better it got,” the “Praying” singer continued. “Which was confusing, because I like to think of myself as a fairly intelligent human being. But it just got dumber and dumber and better and better.”
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Kesha added, “When I listened to the final product, I was like, ‘This is too dumb.’”
Regardless, there was nothing dumb about what the track would do for her career. “Tik Tok” would launch the California native to superstar status, becoming not just her first solo Billboard Hot 100 entry, but her first No. 1 on the chart. It would also remain in the top spot for nine weeks, her longest run at the chart’s summit, and helped Kesha’s first album, Animal, debut atop the Billboard 200.
Fifteen years later, the musician is gearing up to release her sixth studio album, . (Period), her first LP under her own label, Kesha Records. Her departure from Dr. Luke’s Kemosabe Records — the founder of which also produced much of Animal — comes after a yearslong legal battle with Dr. Luke over Kesha’s claims that he drugged and raped her in 2005, after which he sued her for defamation while calling the allegations “false and shocking.” Their ensuing legal battle continued for nine years before the two parties finally reached a settlement in 2023.
Of finally getting to release music fully on her own terms, Kesha told Hudson, “I’m really excited for the world to hear this, because I’ve been in control of everything.”
“It’s been all of my vision, all of my words, a lot of hard work, a lot of joy,” she continued, tearing up. “Really coming back home to myself and feeling what freedom really looks like, feels like, sounds like.”
Watch Kesha’s conversation with Hudson below.
Something fortuitous happened for Role Model during the second North American stop of his No Place Like Tour live run on Feb. 27. Jake Shane happened to be in Dallas at the same time — and with some last-minute coordination, the influencer ended up onstage with the singer for “Sally, When the Wine Runs Out.”
“People loved it — like, lost it,” recalls Role Model, chatting while still on the road. “We were like, ‘Why not do this every night? We don’t need a cameo. It will be fun to do a Justin Bieber “One Less Lonely Girl”-type of moment.’ ”
Throughout the tour, Role Model has welcomed one lucky fan onstage to dance around with the artist during the bridge of the sun-kissed pop-rock song. At one of two sold-out shows at Los Angeles’ The Wiltern in April, he welcomed friend Reneé Rapp to play the part.
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Later that month, when the 27-year-old made his late-night television debut on The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, he scored an appearance from Bowen Yang for the role. The stunt resulted in viral social media moments, with the unintentional strategy helping sustain the song.
“Sally, When the Wine Runs Out” arrived on Feb. 14 as part of the deluxe edition of Role Model’s second album, Kansas Anymore. (As was much of the album, the song was co-written with close collaborator Noah Conrad, alongside Annika Bennett and Harrison Whitford.) The deluxe, titled Kansas Anymore (The Longest Goodbye), featured four new tracks — but “Sally” emerged early on as “something we could jump off of,” says Sam Riback, Interscope Geffen A&M co-president and head of pop/rock A&R. “We were like, ‘Here we go.’ ”
By early May, Role Model made his Billboard airplay debut when “Sally” entered at No. 36 on the Alternative Airplay chart. The song also cracked the top 20 on Hot Rock & Alternative Songs and reached a No. 12 high on Hot Alternative Songs.
Riback first heard of Role Model, born Tucker Pillsbury, in 2018; at the time, Benny Blanco had an imprint with the label called Friends Keep Secrets, and one of its employees tipped Riback off to the then-unknown artist from Cape Elizabeth, Maine making music in his college dorm room. “I heard this demo, which we inevitably put out, of a song called ‘Minimal,’ ” recalls Riback. “It just immediately captivated me,” he says of the stripped-down, hip-hop inspired indie track. Later that year, Role Model signed to Interscope Records. (He signed with Best Friends Music for management in 2020, though parted ways with the firm this April).
Four years after signing, Role Model released his debut album, Rx, in 2022, where he showcased an edgier look and more alternative sound. But Kansas Anymore took a turn towards softer, more Americana-inspired indie-pop and highlighted his sensibilities as a songwriter.
“People who have been listening to me since 2017 have gotten to watch me slowly figure out music,” he says. “When I put out [‘Minimal’], that was really the first song I had made. I didn’t know what I was doing. So I feel like, truly, I did not find my sound until Kansas Anymore. It’s something I’m proud of and it feels like the most genuine thing I’ve made, ever.”
After the album arrived last July, Role Model was eager to stay in the sonic world he had built. While writing the album, he had two “rough ideas that were not fleshed out” but fit into the same universe. So he saved them (they ultimately became “Old Recliners” and “Some Protector”). But as he toyed with the idea of a deluxe, he knew he would need more: “I don’t wanna half-ass it,” he remembers thinking. Weeks after its release, he started writing again, and out came “Longest Goodbye” and “Sally,” the latter of which he calls “a new ending to the chapter…I think that this song felt like a breath of fresh air in that way of, ‘Oh, there’s somewhat of a positive spin here.’ ”
The most fun-loving song to come from the Kansas Anymore chapter, Role Model says “Sally” is “based off some truth,” with the song detailing his re-entry into the dating pool. “Lyrically, it was me being hesitant and doubtful,” he says, “not being sold on someone.”
Role Model
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Role Model teased the track in the days leading to its release, and when he kicked off his No Place Like Tour dates in New Zealand/Australia in early February, added it to his set. “The very first time I did it, people were singing the words. It got louder and louder every show,” he says. “It was the bridge specifically, but it felt like a big moment in the set and the song wasn’t out yet. And that’s when I started to be like, ‘Oh, maybe this is bigger than I can imagine.’ ”
“[‘Sally’ is] an entryway for all these people to see what Tucker’s been building so sturdily over the past seven years,” says Riback. “He hasn’t skipped any steps and he has meticulously put together a fan base that I think is so onboard and along for the ride, wherever this goes next.”
In terms of the next onstage Sally, Role Model has his eyes on Kacey Musgraves, teasing that they’re on a few of the same festival lineups this summer, including Iowa’s Hinterland and Aspen’s Up In the Sky, both scheduled for August. “There’s gotta be some strings we can pull,” he says with a laugh. Riback adds: “We are always planting seeds and hoping things bloom into what we would like them to bloom into.”
In between legs of his tour, he’s also been writing a bit: “I finally had some days to lock myself in the studio again,” he says, “which was incredible and inspiring in itself.” But, much like his career, Role Model is not rushing a thing, calling his rise “a very slow incline — with bumps, of course.” He admires the way his tourmate Gracie Abrams, for whom he’s opened, has navigated her own career, saying she is “an amazing example…I feel like she has just skyrocketed and has handled it incredibly.
“It’s always scared me, the idea of a moment and a giant peak in a career, because it’s the hardest thing to keep up with,” he continues. “And I think oftentimes, you see it go away. So I’m trying not to live in it, but at the same time, I’m doing everything in my power to make sure it does stick around.”
This story appears in the May 17, 2025, issue of Billboard.
If you’ve ever been to a Twenty One Pilots show you are well aware that the bond between the group and their fans is beyond tight. Aside from the sing-alongs, the costumes and the overall loving, supportive spirit, there is […]
Chasing her dreams continues to be fruitful for Maryland native Summer Dennis.
No stranger to opening up for some of the hottest in the game, including Latto, DVSN and many others, Dennis’ favorite place to be is on stage. Recently, she took things to the next level as the opener for R&B powerhouse, and one of Dennis’ favorite songstresses, Melanie Fiona. The rising star could do this right at home at the Howard Theatre in Washington, D.C.
Summer Dennis on opening for someone she’s fan-girled ove
“She’s somebody I’ve wanted to sing like. I’ve been singing since before I could talk. My dad was a sound engineer, and my mom was in praise team,” Dennis told Blavity backstage following her performance. “[Melanie is] somebody I literally grew up watching, so to be here the same night as her, I mean, I hope she reads this, I’m like, ‘Wow.’ I don’t think she ever thinks she’s a part of other people’s stories, like we don’t think that. To be a supporting act for somebody that I’ve been fan-girling for years and years, it definitely warms my little heart so much.”
Born on June 21, 1986, the first day of summer during the first solar eclipse of the summer solstice since 1948, it’s almost as if she was born to be the shining star she is, and her performance at the Howard Theater seems like further proof of that.
“This stage, I can’t let go of it,” Dennis said. “I’ve always had a ton of jobs, but it just keeps pulling me back. No matter what. I’ve styled different ‘who’s who’ in the city, and then I was also a business analyst, and it’s like I can’t stop. I love it so much.”
Before Melanie Fiona hit the stage to deliver jaw-dropping performances of her hits, including “It Kills Me” and “4 AM,” and new songs “Say Yes” and “I Choose You,” Dennis performed tracks from her ever-evolving catalog as well.
Going through her catalog on stage
For those who may have never heard from Dennis before, audiences were introduced to her vocal talents through songs like “Pink Lotus” and her first stage performance of “Ain’t No Way,” her most recent release.
“It’s crazy. We recorded that in LA in 2023,” Dennis said. “So it’s been there for a while, and when I recorded it, I was bigger, I was sicker, and I’ve gotten much healthier now. So for these two whole years, I’ve been like, ‘I’m not gonna be able to sing that all the way through.’ I have long COVID, and getting my breath back, and getting my muscle tone back, a whole lot of stuff. I was scared to sing that song, and it really wasn’t that bad. I’ve just been thinking about this moment.”
When reflecting on how that’s a testament to overcoming fears, Dennis said, “It’s always been in the back. There are other songs that I have waiting, that I’m like, ‘How am I gonna do this?’ And I just keep plowing through. I just won’t stop. I’ve had bad experiences. We’ve been through a lot, and it’s like I still just keep being like, dang, I’m gonna keep doing this.’”
The same week Dennis opened for Melanie Fiona, she returned to the Howard Theater stage as the opening act for Pretty Ricky, and she has no plans to stop anytime soon.
Palm Tree Festival is touching down in France this summer.
The festival, produced by Kygo’s Palm Tree Crew, will throw its first St. Tropez edition on July 26. The show on the French Riviera will be headlined by A$AP Rocky and Swedish House Mafia, with the lineup also featuring Sammy Virji, Cassian, Cruz, Lubo Hang, Xandra and Roman Cleiss. Tickets for the event go on sale this Friday, May 16.
Previous editions of Palm Tree Festival have happened in a laundry list of high-end locations including Hawaii, Australia, Aspen, Lake Tahoe and the Hamptons. Event organizers note that additional European editions of the event will be announced “soon.”
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“As we continue to grow Palm Tree Music Festival globally, St. Tropez marks a monumental step in our expansion into Europe,” says Myles Shear, the co-founder of Palm Tree Crew and Kygo’s longtime manager. “We’re bringing the best of Palm Tree Crew — music, travel, and entertainment — to one of the most beautiful destinations in the world, and kicking off what’s to be an amazing European run.”
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In addition to Palm Tree Festival, Kygo and Shear also opened a brick and mortar Palm Tree Club in Miami late last year, with both the festival and the resort further establishing the duo’s vision of Palm Tree Club as a lifestyle brand. In 2022, the pair told Billboard about how they’re basing this model on Jimmy Buffett’s Margaritaville empire of music, bars, resorts and events.
“He created so many areas where [his fans] can come together — it doesn’t even need to be at his shows. It can be at his hotel or a Margaritaville bar,” Kygo said of Buffet. “That’s what we’re trying to create: something that’s bigger than the music. A community, a movement.”
Kelly Clarkson has a simple message to her human resources department: she’s happier than ever and quit telling her to shut up about it. According to People, during her show at Hard Rock Live at Etess Arena in Atlantic City, NJ on Saturday (May 10), the singer took a moment during the gig to chat with an audience member who praised her “sexy” appearance.
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Clarkson, 43, said she appreciated the compliment, but noted that she has had a hard time complimenting other people’s looks on the set of her eponymous NBC daytime talk show because HR keeps telling her it’s not appropriate.
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“Every time I go to an HR meeting, I’m like, ‘How have I not been fired?’ I grew up on the road at 19 years old, you know what I’m saying? I’m like, ‘Oh, that is inappropriate. I would never,’” she said of the conversations. Last May on her show, Clarkson and Whoopi Goldberg bonded over their use of the prescription medication Ozempic for weight loss, with Kelly saying she’s lost a “lot” of weight on the drug.
“But they also say you’re not allowed to say someone looks attractive, and I say f–k that,” Clarkson told the crowd. “Because some of those b–ches are out here working, and we’re trying, and I want every motherf–ker that passes me to go, ‘Damn. Well done.’” To be fair, Clarkson added, she doesn’t think there is anything wrong with anyone’s bodies, whatever shape, telling her fans that she felt “very confident” at her previous weight.
“I felt fine both ways, but I’m just saying it’s a lot more fun with clothes now. And I’ve been working on it,” she said. According to People, she thanked the fan for the compliment and quipped that she will “not be calling HR” about their interaction. “It is not a joke. I know HR is not a joke, but it is really funny some of the things they talk about,” she said. “And we’re like, ‘Oh no. We would never.’”
The Saturday show was one of two she played in Atlantic City, where, during the Friday night gig she lamented to the audience that she is bummed she can’t tour like she used to due to the schedule of her TV show. “We haven’t done a show in a while, y’all, ’cause I have a talk show. It’s like a whole other job,” said Clarkson, who has not mounted a full tour since 2019. “We are bummed ’cause we love doing shows, and it’s hard to fit it in, so it’s cool when it does work out with the schedule. And it’s cool to get to see your faces and feed off y’all. Thank you so much for having so much energy.”
This year’s Country Music Assn. Awards will be held Nov. 19, keeping the 59th edition of the show in the same late November slot it occupied last year.
The CMA Awards ceremony was moved two weeks back from its usual early November time frame in 2024 to distance itself from the general election. The move also avoids any potential conflict with the World Series, in case the baseball series goes to game seven as it did in 2016 for the CMA Awards’ 50th anniversary. “Even a number of our board members who are Cubs fans went to the game and skipped the awards that year,” CMA CEO Sarah Trahern says.
Last year, “when we tested being out of that early window because of the election, we felt good,” Trahern says. “The ratings were strong. Also, ABC used to have another award show in that space where they no longer have it. So, getting through all of the end-of-the-season shows that tend to finale in November gave us a little bit of a window right before Thanksgiving. It was a good tune-in window, so we’re going to try it again.” The move also gives the show two extra weeks after the final nominations are announced for set up and pre-production. The show will air on ABC and Disney + Nov. 19 and then on Hulu starting the day after.
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The move could become permanent, Trahern says, “if the window continues to do well for us. Every year, ABC might make up their mind based on other competitive programming situations, but I think we’re feeling pretty good about that third week.”
The CMA has also examined its voting procedures and made significant changes this year to reflect the broadening reach of country music.
“One of the things that we’ve really spent the last year on culminated in some membership category changes to impact this year’s voting,” Trahern says. “It has to do with broadening the reach of some of the categories and being able to make folks [at] the coastal labels eligible to vote because more people are actually in the country music space.”
Though the changes weren’t implemented until this year, Tiffany Kerns, CMA senior vp of industry relations and philanthropy, stresses that discussions on how to incorporate New York and Los Angeles executives working in the country music space began a few years ago as artists like Zach Bryan, Warren Zeiders, Koe Wetzel and Megan Moroney began to emerge.
“We always have to look at not only the artists, but the teams that are behind those artists and what is preventing them from being engaged with us, because it is more than just voting,” Kerns says. “We need them to understand, especially if [they’re] not familiar with how we interact or what our voting process is.”
As the CMA had those conversations with coastal companies, they realized that many of the executives weren’t eligible to vote. It wasn’t because they didn’t meet the professional voting criteria of working full time in music and earning their income primarily from the country music industry, it was because there wasn’t room on their company’s voting roster. To maintain the integrity of the voting process and to avoid bloc voting, the number of voting members any company can have, whether it’s a label, management company or booking agency, is limited.
But Kerns says the need to expand was crucial, as long as it was done in the right way. “We need to make sure that we are not just thinking of preserving what we have but being inclusive and thinking about what we don’t. We have to be forward thinking. We have to be the membership organization that is helping drive the future of country music,” she says. “[We had] conversations with the label heads to make sure that they were on board with us, but we also wrestled with it a bit too. We want to make sure, again, that we’re upholding that integrity piece, [and] making sure when our current members see the changes, they’re not concerned.”
That meant reassuring the current members that the criteria to be an individual voter had not changed, only that the number of voters any label could have on its roster expanded. Previously, an eligible voter on a coastal label had to be included on its Nashville-based counterpart’s voting roster and often spaces were already filled. Now, coastal labels that work directly with country artists can have their own voting roster that is proportionate to the number of country artists it works with.
Kerns says that around 70% of CMA’s 6,468 voting members live in Tennessee, with the remainder largely coming from Texas, California and New York. “Texas was a really good model for how we needed to approach the coastals, because they have also operated really siloed from Nashville as well,” she says.
Kerns and her team also “got under the tent with all sorts of different businesses” to make sure they had appropriate representations on committees and voting, Trahern says, calling it the biggest membership realignment in at least 20 years. “The industry has changed so much so we want to make sure that not just for voting purposes, but for everything else we offer our members that we are reflecting the way the country music industry shows up today.”
The expansion for the coastal voters will not significantly alter the overall number of voters, Kerns says. “I don’t anticipate it having a big impact this year. There will definitely be a few 100, but the coastals are not going to provide 1000s of members,” she says. “If you think about a coastal [company] adding three to four, you’re not going to see this giant impact. We didn’t do it as a tactic to recruit or have a certain number of members. It was more about who is not able to participate right now that needs to be and then making sure that we are evolving to support that.”
As a way of further supporting and recruiting members, the CMA launched the Member Ambassador Program in April. The program empowers a selected number of CMA members to help recruit new members and answer questions any potential new members may have.
“There is going to be no better way to educate and inform potential members and or current members than by their peers,” Kerns says. “I think for us, we wanted to identify individuals that are eager, ready, comfortable and confident to essentially be extensions of the CMA staff.”
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